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Maximum Number of Accounts Per Reseller




Posted by Jamie Harrop, 11-09-2005, 06:39 AM
I'm in the process of developing some new reseller packages for our customers at the moment. I have always been told that one should limit the number of accounts that a reseller can create, say, 1 per 100mb of space that the reseller has, just as an example. That's fine. But I'm now beginning to see Web hosts offering resellers with no set limit on the number of accounts, just a limit to the space and bandwidth that they can use. Maybe I'm missing something, but putting a maximum number on the amount of accounts a reseller can create seems quite pointless to me, as there is always a limit to space and bandwidth for that perticular reseller. What benefits, if any, does limiting the number of accounts have? I am lead to believe I am missing something crucial, something probably related to overselling. Maybe it is just personal preference, somebody enlighten me.

Posted by rv_irl, 11-09-2005, 07:59 AM
Although it's true that the customer will be limited by webspace and bandwidth, but that is not all of the system resources they can use. For example, CPU usage. The more accounts you have on a server then the more activity the server has. I would rather sell a 1000mb account to one customer, rather than 100mb sites to 10 customers. The customer with the 1000mb may only have one busy forum whereas the 10 websites may have a busy site each. I used to give out unlimited, but customers that purchased reseller accounts didn't seem to care much for the server they were on. A lot of resources were just wasted and causes inconvenience. The only way we have found to teach resellers proper discipline and respect the shared environment is by imposing non intrusive limits on the number of accounts they can create.

Posted by Jamie Harrop, 11-09-2005, 08:21 AM
I see, I guess that makes perfect sense. Thanks Rameen. As I understand it, I should be looking at around the 100mb per account mark, to come to a decision upon the final number of accounts. So if we offer a reseller account with 1000mb of disk space, we should be looking at around the 10 accounts mark. Am I correct in thinking this?

Posted by layer0, 11-09-2005, 08:25 AM
Yes, I'd offer about 10-15 for that account. If customers need more, and they are just hosting mostly static sites from what you can tell, then maybe you hook them up every once in a while =)

Posted by rois, 11-09-2005, 08:53 AM
Limiting the number of accounts a reseller can host/sell "may" drive away potential clients. I might just increase it to something like 100 accounts per 1000mb or 1 account per 10mb. Regardless of whether your new client actually plans to sell 10 accounts or 100 accounts, what matters is the flexibility. And as with any business, you will not be able to predict what will happen in the 1st day/week/month of opening. It may just be that the reseller is able to market and price his/her hosting package nicely thus creating a huge demand. I know the word unlimited does not really exist in this world but I would suggest no to impose a very low limit.

Posted by Jamie Harrop, 11-09-2005, 09:10 AM
That is quite similar to how I was thinking yesterday, rois. However, Rameen's point regarding CPU usage is a very strong point indeed. I would much rather lose 5 customers, if it meant the server stayed stable, and current customers were happy. A motto I like to stick to is, "Current customers come before potential customers". Last edited by Jamie Harrop; 11-09-2005 at 09:13 AM.

Posted by rv_irl, 11-09-2005, 09:50 AM
It may drive away customers, however the approach I took was different. When I stopped giving out unlimited accounts, performance increased and we had much less mess to deal with. Customers were actually concerned and actively worked on ensuring the server they were on was running well. By having our reseller customers actively ensuring they use resources within a reasonable amount we managed to save a little money on maintenance. With that money, we invested on other extra value additions that would attract more customers. As a result, we haven't had any customers express a concern on the limits. They are generous and enough for the plans they are on. It also stimulates the customer to upgrade to higher plan instead increasing storage and bandwidth.

Posted by IHSL, 11-09-2005, 09:53 AM
If you are selling the ability to host 100 domains on top of 1000MB of space, you are asking for trouble. That could quite easily equate to 2000 domains hosted on one machine, even if you only sell 20GB of space on the server. 2000 domains on a machine, especially a machine that has httpd sharing with other services, is a recipe for disaster. Stocking the server that heavy will result in you hammering the CPU so hard it will hate you for life. You also have such issues as services not being able to kick in because httpd is hogging everything. My advice is to set a maximum domain limit, based on your machines, and work down from there. Most modern "all in one" machines that aren't crippled by overselling can handle 400 +/- stock domains. Keep in mind, too, that you have to allow your current customers to grow in to their account. You can not bank on them under-utilizing their account. The moment you start to bank on that happening is the moment it comes back to haunt you. Simon

Posted by hfohrman, 11-09-2005, 10:04 AM
One thing of it also if you allow overselling. If not allowing that I think you have a good way to stop the accounts to grow. As noone can sell 1000 x 1 Mb account or even 100x10Mb there will be a limit. Hans

Posted by ldcdc, 11-09-2005, 01:06 PM
Unlimited domains with overselling enabled will give the resellers the most power in how to manage the resources they have bought, but, unfortunately, it means in turn that the reseller hosting provider has less leverage when it comes to managing the load on the server. To get back some of that leverage the host can limit the number of domains, disallow overselling, or both. "Asking for trouble" is a bit too harsh IMO, considering similar offers have been around for a long while, and they proved succesfull. Selling the ability is one thing, the end result is likely to be quite far from the worst scenario.

Posted by Amano, 11-12-2005, 03:31 PM
i think it depends on the account spec. and the server load.

Posted by JasonC0, 11-12-2005, 04:00 PM
I wouldn't limit the number of accounts they can create. It really drives away customers when they find out they are limited. When I am asked questions regarding my reseller package, the first question is almost always "Do you allow overselling?" or "Do you have an account limit?".

Posted by ramavps, 11-12-2005, 05:16 PM
Hello Every body i think that this biz need a refresh when you will limit the reseller account with a definit NUMBER OF ACCOUNTS costs will come over the will be better for that INDUSTRY !!

Posted by Jamie Harrop, 11-13-2005, 05:23 AM
Well, the fact is Jason, if that is the first thing on a potential customers mind, I don't want them as a customer. I would much rather have one customer who is happy to have a limit, and understand that the server and ultimately his service will reap the benefits in the future, than three people who have unlimited accounts, and are overselling like there is no tomorrow, only for the server load to spike for 23 hours each day. I can understand overselling if you are a budget host (in some cases, not all), however, we are not a budget host, so overselling is out of the question for us. Sure, there may well be that tiny amount that occurs, just like 99% of hosts have, it's only natural, but we have no plans to dramatically oversell our servers. It just doesn't make sense to us.

Posted by cartika-andrew, 11-13-2005, 02:20 PM
Its all about managing expectations - of performance and uptime. "successful" simply means that company has targetted a specific market and met and managed that markets expectations - and although the end result may be "quite far from the worst scenario" for that certain market segment, it may not be very close to the expectations of another market segment...

Posted by cartika-andrew, 11-13-2005, 02:37 PM
Jamie, in a nutshell, this seems to be the conundrum that is reseller hosting... I feel this comes down to the overall philosophy of the root provider - what message you are trying to portray, and what sorts of customers you are trying to attract... We put VERY hard limits on number of domains and number of accounts each reseller can host. We are very application heavy (as more and more hosts are starting to become) - and simply put, this notion of squeezing on as many domains as possible onto servers is not something that will be sustainable over time (regardless of whether others have done or are doing this successfully now). There is a delicate balance between allowing resellers to use all of their "physical resources" (ie space and bandwith) and not allowing resellers to oversell their "server resources" (cpu and memory).... Theres really several ways to approach this, but, in my mind, you either 1) open up the flood gates and target the market segment that feels they should be able to oversell the heck out of their resources and utilize every last mb of space they have been sold - or - 2) you target the market segment that is satisfied (and demand) a fixed number of domains and will pay a premium for such

Posted by Jamie Harrop, 11-13-2005, 03:09 PM
Thanks for that, Andrew. Having read this thread, and done a little extra research outside of WHT, rest assured, we will be going the route of targetting those who are satisfied with a fixed number of domains, rather than those intent on overselling every resource possible to man.

Posted by trgalatasaray, 11-13-2005, 03:35 PM
bandwith limits all, dont worry.

Posted by cartika-andrew, 11-13-2005, 11:21 PM
quite the contrary really I am particular that in the long run, you will be happy with this decision

Posted by Aussie Bob, 11-13-2005, 11:33 PM
Either way you go, you won't find perfection. That beast just doesn't exist in the reseller supply platform. I've looked for it, and can't find it. You can only limit your chances of things going wrong. In most cases, overselling enabled + unlimited domains = recipe for trouble, when a server starts to mature. You can keep the risk minimal, and offer unlimited domains, if you don't allow overselling. That will keep things "contained", to a degree. Just keep a very close eye on your servers and be prepared to move client's accounts off to another server, if the load is getting a tad high. Blessed are the flexible, for they will not get bent out of shape.

Posted by Aussie Bob, 11-13-2005, 11:43 PM
Adding to my above post - Or to also contain things, you can offer overselling, but put a domain number cap on reseller accounts. That has a similar effect.

Posted by Eleven2 Hosting, 11-14-2005, 12:48 AM
I just saw this title and had to tell ya this.. i got a client on my 20GB reseller package who no joke has over 700 accounts...and no reselling is enabled...its one of those love/hate clients

Posted by cartika-andrew, 11-14-2005, 12:57 AM
exactly correct and very well said - its all about mitigating risk

Posted by Aussie Bob, 11-14-2005, 11:34 AM
Yeah, while at the same time maximising profit. (gee, I sound like a Ferengi ) You walk that fine line with what demands your clients put on your server/s, and what revenue demands you put on your server/s. Somehow you find a balance between those 2 seemingly conflicting corners. So my advice would be to use the most powerful server/s you can afford, and place the least amount of clients per server, that you can afford.



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