I am so screwed....help!

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Posted by simcoweb, 02-09-2004, 01:36 PM
My current reseller provider (which I found here through recommendations) just absolutely stiffed me beyond compare. I've set up almost 30 customer accounts and they've suddenly and without warning 'suspended' my entire account for excess resource usage. Now i've got 30 very pissed off people and add me to the mix as well. I'm not mentioning their name until I get this resolved. But I can assure you that everyone here will know about it if I do not get some relief for my customers while we move their accounts. It's ludicrous to just cut off someone's account without at least a warning shot. I need a solid, affordable, and dang fast setup for a new reseller provider. PLEASE PLEASE PLEASE post your recommendations and links. THANKS!!
Posted by Nullified, 02-09-2004, 01:40 PM
I would go to unitedhosting.co.uk. The offer simply the best support and are great people. Matt (the administrator) is a regular here at WHT. You should also try contacting the company you are currently with and ask them why exactly you were cut off and see if the problem can be resolved.
Posted by Pilgrim, 02-09-2004, 01:40 PM
Whatever solution you are going to find, it will still take up to 48 hours before you get your sites back online. DNS changes... Not to mention the problems you are going to encounter because you cannot download the data that is on the current server. A better solution would be to first call your host, ask them to unsuspend your account for 24 hrs while you work to resolve the problem with them (don't ever mention you are going to leave anyway because that may have a negative impact on their cooperation to resolve the issue) When you have your sites back online THEN go for another host.
Posted by simcoweb, 02-09-2004, 01:48 PM
First, thanks for your quick responses. I HAVE requested that they reactivate the account so we can move the customer sites. I have not heard back from them as of yet but I would assume that they would do this. Their complaint is that our customer sites use too much resources so they just cut it off. This was all in the same email. Kinda like: " Hi...your account has been suspended due to using too much resources and we can't allow that. Have a nice day." Most of our sites are shopping cart related and some draw as many as 50,000 visitors monthly. Personally I don't think that's absurd by any stretch. I need a reliable hosting service that isn't going to puss out on me if I have some busy sites. All our bandwidth and space allocations were well within limits so that wasn't a problem. I see that HTTPME is drawing some praise in here. Any others? Here's the actual email I received: Then, kaputski. Nada. Just turned it off. Last edited by simcoweb; 02-09-2004 at 01:51 PM.
Posted by sightz, 02-09-2004, 02:36 PM
They should have given you some warning, yes. BUT this may shed some light on your situation: I just looked your simcoweb.com site on Whois.sc and the screenshot of your site that they show (taken Jan 1, 2004) shows a typical "this site has been hacked" type of page. Is it possible that your sites were hacked and the reason they were using so many resources is due to trojans/bots/etc installed by hackers?
Posted by trustedurl.com, 02-09-2004, 02:37 PM
Have you tried working with them to get the loads down? Seems like some script is going crazy.... then again, suspending all sites seems a bit excessive, but it's within the hosts discretion (assuming it's in their terms). Good luck!
Posted by fcsnc, 02-09-2004, 02:37 PM
Brian, If you have all these domains on a single shared server then I think your host probably had no choice. Nobody on a shared server is going to appreciate your hogging the CPU. If you are averaging 50GB, you need to go Virtual Private Server for sure, and you are on the edge of needing a ded (maybe a couple of them!). If you want to give fully-managed VPS a try you might try splash host, Alan is a straight-up guy and will answer your questions honestly. There are also a couple of other companies that come to mind, but others will jump in with recommendations I'm sure! Last edited by fcsnc; 02-09-2004 at 02:43 PM.
Posted by simcoweb, 02-09-2004, 03:11 PM
Thanks for your comments and your recommendation for splashhost. Honestly, i'm not that familiar with virtual hosting. Their plans seem reasonable and would fit our budgets. However, am I going to run into the same issues as before? They're allocating server processor speed on their plans: Disk Space 2 GB 3.5 GB 5 GB 7 GB Bandwidth 20 GB 35 GB 50 GB 70 GB Memory 200 MB 400 MB 600 MB 800 MB Processor Speed 75 MHZ 150 MHZ 225 MHZ 300 MHZ Price $40/month $60/month $80/month $100/month I'm running some shopping cart sites that may have up to 30,000 products. So power is a major factor. Another of the sites has over 16,000 customers across the country who also have literally 1000's of members who will be emailing their granny's to have them buy stuff for fundraisers. This is a MAJOR customer to say the least. So...what to do.
Posted by Ash, 02-09-2004, 03:16 PM
Two things There's no point just moving to another host and forgetting about it, if your site(s) were using too many resources they will most likely just get shut off again by your new host. You need to try and find out exactly which sites were causing the problem, and work out what scripts are the ones eating up the CPU. Secondly, your site/the server was obviously compromised at some point recently, was there a fresh install of everything after that? like sightz pointed out, there could be something running on your account that you don't know about that was installed when the server was hacked.
Posted by simcoweb, 02-09-2004, 03:18 PM
sightz...the simcoweb site is NOT on their servers. That's hosted at Powweb. And, yes, some russians came along and put up some nasty notes on the home page a few weeks ago. They haven't been back in awhile. The other sites: www.templatedepot.com www.familymobility.com www.stepfamily.com www.thekitchenoutlet.com are the 4 sites they mentioned specifically that were causing the problems. Each of these runs a shopping cart system except for the stepfamily site which is strictly forum based (over 30,000 posts in just a 4 months). There's a total of 30 sites. I guess what gives me an ulcer is we are still WAY below our allocated bandwidth and server space. The beef is in CPU usage which we have no way to measure. I'm sure i'm on my way to getting a dedicated or virtual server. I need guidance on that since i'm not familiar with the differences and issues that may arise from one over the other. Help?
Posted by Ash, 02-09-2004, 03:23 PM
Unfortunately, they are completley different, a site can be using very minimal bandwidth and still be using a huge amount of the server resources which then causes problems for everybody else. You need to try and get some more detail from your current host on the sites that were causing the most problems.
Posted by simcoweb, 02-09-2004, 03:41 PM
Loon, would they be able to pinpoint what scripts were causing the problems? They've told me the sites that were the main concern. Here's the weird part. One of them, the stepfamily site, uses Invisionboard which is part of the software package that our host/reseller has built in to Control Panel. So, we're using the software they recommend but we're using too many resources? I don't get it. What I see is a pattern whereas the hosts offer a package with all kinds of amenities but they really don't count on you using them. If you do then you're a resource hog. ALL that site has on it is a home page and the IB forums. So how can it be a resource hog? I think what we have here is really a case of quickly outgrowing the capabilities of this certain host service. Our sites are generally storefronts and run a lot of CGI scripts in the process.
Posted by net-trend, 02-09-2004, 03:48 PM
That could be the cause of the high loads.
Posted by simcoweb, 02-09-2004, 04:00 PM
Hi..and thanks for the reply. I 'm sure that's the cause for high loads...but every shopping cart uses system resources. I can't believe that this one is any different in that aspect. We're using ClickCartPro which is very well written and very popular. It's utilizing MySQL so it's not writing or searching from text files all the time. And the average number of products for the sites is under 500. Not to mention that the traffic to one of the 'trouble' sites is minimal. Probably less than 50 people a day. If the cart is causing that much of a drag then I'm having a hard time understanding why. This certain host provides two add-on shopping carts. Agora and OSCommerce, which are both pretty bulky as well and Agora doesn't use a MySQL database out of the box. Apparently their systems are not really set up for the 'power' shop kind of thing and more for the housewife wanting to sell some jewelry she makes. Our template site was averaging almost 40 page views per visit. Most of that was generated via CGI or PHP scripts. This may be too much for the servers to handle. Can I get some recommendations for affordable virtual and dedicated hosting? Thanks again.
Posted by Aussie Bob, 02-09-2004, 04:32 PM
Here's a good place to start.
Posted by Odd Fact, 02-09-2004, 04:33 PM
Have you check with ClickCart or searched for problems related to ClickCart. I find sometimes that a perl/cgi based solution uses a little more resource than php scritps.
Posted by Ed_Case, 02-09-2004, 04:39 PM
I dont know what your currently charging your customers but you might want to look at cutting a deal with a vps provider and putting each of the hog sites on its own vps. When your bringing more than one site to the table then I'm sure you can get a nice deal for yourself. Ive looked at a few vps providers recently and Dinix and Jvds look to be pretty good setups.
Posted by fcsnc, 02-09-2004, 05:05 PM
It sounded from your original post as though CPU load was the problem you were running into with shared hosting. Disk and bandwidth quotas are easy to set up and enforce on the fly, but if a script takes over a CPU for several minutes that can only be observed, and the only option one has is to kill the script (or put up with dozens or hundreds of other people sharing the server, wondering why they can't get on the proc at all). What VPS does is to divide up the total CPU and memory of a physical server into several virtual parts. So, the CPU you buy and the memory you buy is yours. If your script is using your whole CPU, nobody else on the physical machine is affected. In many setups, you can even "boot" your virtual machine without affecting any other users. 75 or 100 mhz might not sound like a lot of processor to the average Windows user, but Linux can take that kind of power and serve thousands of hits per second. You would want to max out on memory, though.
Posted by simcoweb, 02-09-2004, 05:50 PM
Hi fcsnc: Thanks for the great description of the VDS. That helps to understand the concept much better. I've come to the conclusion that i'm going to need to separate some of these customers into two groups. The 'power' users and the 'wannabes'. I'm thinking a VDS for the wannbes and the dedicated for the power users.
Posted by deet, 02-10-2004, 03:30 PM
hi, a lot of people use these forums to research a hosting reseller before buying from them. so for research..Will tell us who cut you accounts off without warning? Thanks, d00t
Posted by simcoweb, 02-10-2004, 03:45 PM
Hi doot: I'll just point you to a thread that has further info. How's that? http://www.webhostingtalk.com/showth...29#post1835729 We've looked at this situation from both sides. Personally I think it's wrong for any host to simply turn off an account without notice. Unless it's extreme circumstances, of course. But those being something like they're serving up porn, spamming by the millions, etc. etc. In our case there were 30 accounts under our reseller account. Approximately 6 of them were isolated as resources hogs (which is questionable) but the entire account was disabled. So, the innocent people get hammered also. It's not right. Now, if it's a single hosting plan then ok. But a reseller plan could have 100..200..300 people under that account. If one site under that account was causing a problem then why should all 300 get shut off?? Doesn't make any sense. As a reseller I monitored my customer's bandwidth, made adjustments, notified them when we needed to upgrade their account, etc. etc. Maybe i'm a dinosaur in this market but I still believe in customer service.
Posted by HostMidwest, 02-10-2004, 04:31 PM
Well, at least they were honest that you were using too much resources. You are right that a host *shouldn't* do that. They should have given you a week to switch. However, some hosts start getting desperate when a reseller starts using 90% of system resources. Last edited by HostMidwest; 02-10-2004 at 04:37 PM.
Posted by simcoweb, 02-10-2004, 04:54 PM
Absolutely...i'd be nervous too. But I scratch my head and think that perhaps somewhere in all that technology that something must register that resource usage long before it becomes too severe so that they can have a little advanced warning. That's like not watching your speedometer, doing 140mph, then hitting a tree and saying 'slow down!'.
Posted by Def, 02-13-2004, 05:13 PM
It all depends on who's perspective you're looking at it with. As a customer, sure you'd be upset for turning off your reseller account, but if you look at it as the host sees it then you're affecting not only your sites but everyone else's sites that share that server with you. Hosting is a business and as such a host has to make a decision on what's best for the rest of its customers. I don't know if I would've turned off ALL of your sites but I definitely would've suspended those that were obviously causing loads to go to 25, and I, too, would've done so without giving prior notice. quote ----------------------------- Maybe i'm a dinosaur in this market but I still believe in customer service. ----------------------------- Again, it depends on who's perspective you're looking at it with. Nothing personal, just my .02 [edit] sorry, just realized the date of this thread. didn't mean to kick a dead horse
Posted by simcoweb, 02-14-2004, 04:05 AM
We're not insensitive to the host's problems in maintaining server integrity. But in return they can't be insensitive to the customer's needs as well. Afterall, they exist because of us. Furthermore, I can assure you that the issues regarding resource abuse were not due to wild crazy scripts or crappy programming, etc. etc. There's not way I can be convinced that 5 shopping carts on one server can cause it to have a meltdown. We are now running our own dedicated server, have restored all our accounts, and are on a less powerful machine than what they state they operate on and our speed has picked up dramatically. The issue wasn't the scripts, it's most likely due to the overselling of their servers and when someone comes along to use the resources promised they didn't like it. Their sales pitch states they 'can handle even the most demanding sites' is untrue considering it couldn't handle a shopping cart on a site drawing less than 50 people per day. As is typical, overselling your resources is eventually going to catch up with you. Anyway, it's all for the best. We've stepped up to our own DS and so far are loving it. We chalk it up to experience.
Posted by laura68, 02-15-2004, 01:40 PM
I'm shocked someone is still at poweb.
Posted by denisdekat, 02-15-2004, 03:44 PM
I am not sure why you did not agree with them, or could come to some agreement to turn of your scritp/store and revive the rest of your accounts. Also, I am not sure why if it was one store all your accounts get disabled. In either case, I agree with loon I imagine that if you are creating unacceptable loads at one place, you will most likely repeat it at the new HTH
Posted by Project X, 02-15-2004, 04:36 PM
ok so now that youve moved you promised to say who it was, and i have a REAL GOOD IDEA already btw i LOVE your template site, i may be making a purchase for a fan site of mine!
Posted by Project X, 02-15-2004, 04:38 PM
ooops, maybe not... Warning: fopen(/home/wwwtemp/public_html/gallery/albums/templatetour/album.dat.lock): failed to open stream: Permission denied in /home/wwwtemp/public_html/gallery/platform/fs_unix.php on line 53 Error: Could not open lock file (/home/wwwtemp/public_html/gallery/albums/templatetour/album.dat.lock)!
Posted by simcoweb, 02-15-2004, 05:24 PM
We're working on that issue. That just started after we've moved to the new server. Refresh the page and it should go away. Strange error. Still some bugs in the move but that's expected since we had to vacate in a hurry with 30 accounts to drag along and restore
Posted by Project X, 02-15-2004, 06:35 PM
ok, so who was it! also, is templatedepot your site? are you the contact person? thanks
Posted by simcoweb, 02-15-2004, 06:47 PM
Yes, template depot is ours as well as these others: www.swishdepot.com www.ezflashtemplates.com I'm the contact person, the head waiter, the chef, the designer, the janitor, etc. etc. Our previous host was with Dathorn.
Posted by Project X, 02-15-2004, 07:04 PM
nice stuff too bad about dathorn, im sure we'll be hearing from him now.... glad you got everything worked out im going to contact you about a new site i am working on, maybe you can assist me... i really need a janitor
Posted by simcoweb, 02-15-2004, 07:09 PM
I'll look forward to hearing from you. We do strictly custom designs so anything you need just let us know. Thanks!
Posted by Dathorn-Andrew, 02-15-2004, 08:50 PM
This was already discussed. http://www.webhostingtalk.com/showth...hreadid=235102

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